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Leaving People ...

BoBo

MobiPassionista
NO. The subject line isn't about how the Britons will decide two days from now!
If you wanna know what the hell I'm talking about - l
et's explain a native Englishmen what it's all about (add this at Youtube: iAgKHSNqxa8) and have fun. The final choir is AMAZING :lmao:

Unfortunatly it's true. :zip: Back to the topic ...


At last weeks MobiMono 182 competition here: http://mobitog.com/threads/result-182.21535/page-2

... its winner sinnerjohn [congrats btw :)] has posted an amazing landscape shot but left it with that remark:

"... my photographer friends tell me leaving people in the shot is good for the image.....not sure myself."

I've dropped a note at that thread that I'll show up on that again - well knowing that once you ask 5 professionals you'll get 6 different opinions :D and fun!
For the reason that a picture is worth a thousand words/Ein Bild sagt mehr als tausend Worte (and that other reason that my language skills are quite limited) here we go ...

Copyright of all images are of course with sinnerjohn.
Posting of copied images without getting the owners permission beforehand isn't exactly the way to go.
I've took John's kinda "question" as an invitation to create this thread/initiate this (discussion).
Just for the records.

:look: DEGUSTIBUS NON EST DISPUTANDUM :thumbs:

image.jpg
1. the original image

IMG_1039.JPG
2. enlarged bottom section (Handy Photo's Magic Crop)

IMG_1043.JPG
3. ... + edited (Handy Photo's Retouch)

IMG_1044.JPG
4. ... cropped (Snapseed)

IMG_1045.JPG
5. ... HDRScape'd (Snapseed)

IMG_1048.JPG
6. ... squared (Snapseed)

IMG_1049.JPG
7. ... cropped 16:n (Snapseed)

I've posted them that way so you can easily toggle through the images once you've clicked on one of them to start the Forums embedded viewer!

Thx John to let this happen.
:)
 
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sinnerjohn

MobiLifer
Real Name
John
Device
Pixel
Like JillyG said elsewhere, its always interesting to see what others can make of from something you have posted.
I'm flattered BoBo that you would do this :)
I do like the square crop and the more rectangular one. I left the contrail in on the original as I felt it added something.
But back to the people issue, I do like the focus on the group of people looking over the wall.
I did consider cropping but left it as it was and for me I think that made a more interesting, rather than 'perfect' shot.
 

BoBo

MobiPassionista
I thought to myself "why are the leaving woman isn't really working for me?"
My conclusion - it works out fine if she's not so close to the images border ("not dropping out of the picture") so I've "enlarged" that area at image 2 to prove that. IMHO to tweak/have shot the image that way your advisers statement make sense to me - well - if you like to keep the focus not mainly on the landscape.

Contrails (thx for the word) aren't something that I'm happy with in general, except the plane is visible as well and adds a meaning to the image.

What I found interesting was "cropped vs uncropped" versions and how it might change the focus!
The barely visible group of people* added that "tiny human in great nature"-kinda thing for me, but worked only fine for the reason that the wall guides the eye towards them (I've only realized the women walking from the left to the middle while editing!). That landscape and the sky are the stars !
IMHO that images perspective would have been a painters first choice!

Thx 4 listening :)

PS. That image is btw perfect to be used at a new MobiTog competition named "spot the difference"
:thumbs:

* TBH I've lighted them up a little to "highlight" them in front of the wall.
 
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mwolfer

MobiLurver
Real Name
Melissa 'Mel'
Device
iPhone X
Like JillyG said elsewhere, its always interesting to see what others can make of from something you have posted.
I'm flattered BoBo that you would do this :)
I do like the square crop and the more rectangular one. I left the contrail in on the original as I felt it added something.
But back to the people issue, I do like the focus on the group of people looking over the wall.
I did consider cropping but left it as it was and for me I think that made a more interesting, rather than 'perfect' shot.
We each have a style, a sense of what looks good, whether we acknowledge it or not. There is no right answer. I would've done something between the original and BoBo's edits. Having more garden in the foreground adds perspective, but I agree that the person walking out of the frame is distracting... Just my opinion. There are so many variations and options, that's what makes photography interesting.
 

sinnerjohn

MobiLifer
Real Name
John
Device
Pixel
Something worth saying here. Interesting what others think as well. I don't usually set up shots, or generally think too hard, its more of a quickfire thing for me and I don't always appreciate what I have until I come to edit. The editing is the magic for me, bringing something to life.
Maybe that means I'll never be a proper photographer (if there is such a beast).
 

BoBo

MobiPassionista
Something worth saying here. Interesting what others think as well. I don't usually set up shots, or generally think too hard, its more of a quickfire thing for me and I don't always appreciate what I have until I come to edit. The editing is the magic for me, bringing something to life.
Maybe that means I'll never be a proper photographer (if there is such a beast).
Same with me. There are a million shots you would miss if thinking to much about the arangement instead of killing that beast.
On the other hand there are a few occasions where I think to myself "Damn one step to the left would have made it the perfect shot" :rolleyes: OTOH one step to the left and I might have dropped into a canyon :lmao: So what? :D
 

RoseCat

MobiStaff
Site Staff
MobiSupporter
Real Name
Catherine
Device
iPhone 7 Plus
Wow, the crop in the last image, #7, makes it feel like a totally different scene. I now notice the trees in the distance, which kind of tie in with the sugar-drop tree/bushes in the foreground. And the group of people are highlighted more... :thumbs:
 

sinnerjohn

MobiLifer
Real Name
John
Device
Pixel
Wow, the crop in the last image, #7, makes it feel like a totally different scene. I now notice the trees in the distance, which kind of tie in with the sugar-drop tree/bushes in the foreground. And the group of people are highlighted more... :thumbs:
I guess the beauty of having a 16mp camera is that you CAN crop quite ruthlessly and not destroy the image too much.
 

JillyG

MobiLifer
Mobi Veteran
Real Name
Jilly
Device
iPhone 11 Pro Max
My 365
My MobiTog 365
Like JillyG said elsewhere, its always interesting to see what others can make of from something you have posted.
I'm flattered BoBo that you would do this :)
I do like the square crop and the more rectangular one. I left the contrail in on the original as I felt it added something.
But back to the people issue, I do like the focus on the group of people looking over the wall.
I did consider cropping but left it as it was and for me I think that made a more interesting, rather than 'perfect' shot.
Yes, I was talking about the Wrecking Yard, where we've been given permission to mess around with the work that's posted there. I'd never mess with someone's image without asking them first. Not everyone is as accommodating as you John.:D AND, you are photographer. I don't know about "proper" - I'm not sure what that means. Does it mean that you earn a living from it?
 

BoBo

MobiPassionista
"I'd never mess with someone's image without asking them first"

Worth another thread!
What if you wanna have a discussion about specific details of a photo and you can't get hold of the owner, can't speak his/her language, ... ?
Let's name it - a review.

To (ab)use such content, here's what the German law tells us about "Die Zitierfreiheit" AKA a citation.
Excerpt ...

Das Gesetz stellt strenge Anforderungen, unter denen es zulässig ist ein fremdes Werk, wie einen Text oder ein Foto ohne Zustimmung des Urhebers zu verwenden. So darf das Zitat nicht um seiner selbst Willen übernommen werden, sondern muss einen Zweck erfüllen.

[...]

Vielmehr fordert das Gesetz, dass das Zitat als Beleg oder als Erläuterung der eigenen vertretenen Auffassung dient und Ausdruck der geistigen Auseinandersetzung mit dem zitierten Werk ist. Ein Zitat darf nicht verändert werden (Veränderungsverbot) und seine Quelle ist so anzugeben (Quellenangabe), dass es möglich ist, das Zitat zu prüfen. Bei einem Textbeitrag muss daher der Name des Autors und des Buches und bei Bildzitaten der Fotograf bzw. der Rechteinhaber in unmittelbarer Nähe zum Bild angegeben werden.
Main thing here - you've to name the source, provide the copyright owners name close to the citation (that text/image) and it has to be embedded within a specific context (eg to talk about it).

TBH, I have already (ab)used a bunch of photos provided by you the fellow MobiToggers, simply to get used to an editor you've mentioned, check if a photo would work out fine as well if edited differently ("hey your photo works perfect in b&w too!"), for the reason that I never ever won't be able to take that shot on my own (eg Himalaya, your favourite xyz, your pet, ...) etc pp.

I would love to talk/write about such things more often but asking beforehand someone for permission, someone who will propably show up again only once a month/living in another timezone/being thin skinned... no. To much hassle.

Thx 4 listening :)
 
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terse

MobiLifer
MobiSupporter
Real Name
Ted
Device
iPhone Xs
I don't always appreciate what I have until I come to edit. The editing is the magic for me, bringing something to life.
I'm much the same. A lot of the process for me is finding a good photo within the photo that I actually took. Often that involves cropping not just once but two or three times, usually moving in closer each time. I still carry the hope that one day I'll get better at getting the final shot in the viewfinder first time, but right now, this is how it works for me.
 

sinnerjohn

MobiLifer
Real Name
John
Device
Pixel
no. To much hassle.
BoBo I was happy to let you edit my image, I didn't have a problem with it. But to say it might be too much hassle to get a reply, I'd say if you do not get a reply then you just do not have permission . It's like interfering with someone's personal material, it's crossing a line.
 

BoBo

MobiPassionista
BoBo I was happy to let you edit my image, I didn't have a problem with it. But to say it might be too much hassle to get a reply, I'd say if you do not get a reply then you just do not have permission . It's like interfering with someone's personal material, it's crossing a line.
It's interesting that at Mobitog there's a specific "critique corner"-forum section and a "wrecking yard"-topic which could give the idea that critical statements (IMHO the basis for improvement and therefore positive) are restricted to that area!? That's even more astonishing as there's no right or wrong in photography.
 

Venomator

MobiAdmin
Admin
Site Staff
Real Name
Rog...
Device
iPhone 11 Pro
What if you wanna have a discussion about specific details of a photo and you can't get hold of the owner, can't speak his/her language, ... ?

I would love to talk/write about such things more often but asking beforehand someone for permission, someone who will propably show up again only once a month/living in another timezone/being thin skinned... no. To much hassle.
Let us put an end to this debate once and for all, and it is not the first time as I have mentioned this to you:

No one person has the right to use another artists work, in whole or in part, without the owners explicit permission and this permission should be directly related to the intended use of the iMage.

To be absolutely clear: without appropriate permission from the copyright owner of any iMage, whether a MobiTog Member or otherwise, you may not, I repeat not, post another's work, or any part of it.

It matters not whether one can be bothered to wait for permission, hassle or not, the MobiTog rules are quite clear, as is the law of the land, you must have the relevant permission to use another artist's work.

Additionally, once permission has been granted, for the planned use of another's iMage, the user will then be expected to provide full annotated credit to the original owner of the piece.


It's interesting that at Mobitog there's a specific "critique corner"-forum section and a "wrecking yard"-topic which could give the idea that critical statements (IMHO the basis for improvement and therefore positive) are restricted to that area!? That's even more astonishing as there's no right or wrong in photography.
There are most definitely rights and wrongs in photography - and the photographer's rights are beyond doubt and sacrosanct, no question!

MobiTog's Critique Corner does not give automatic licence to use another's art work without permission. Critique Corner is simply a place to which artists may go to post an iMage they are requesting serious, constructive critique and comment on - the rules of permissions will still apply in this case!

The Wrecking Yard is a specific challenge, where the rules are quite clear about artists entering iMages which may be used by other members, within the thread, in making compilation images. It is implicit in the rules of the Wrecking Yard that permission is granted to other participants to use posted works to form another piece/s or art. It is also explicit in that thread that any iMage posted to it, whether combined or otherwise, may not be used elsewhere outside of the Wrecking Yard thread.

I sincerely hope this has now adequately clarified the rules and expectations of MobiTog and its members.

We all have a duty to protect the rights of our artists and members to ensure our works are not used and/or abused without the proper permissions being in place.

NOTE: Should anyone wish to discuss this further please do not reply to this post, or make any further comment on the subject in this thread (any such post will be removed without notice, if anyone ignores this request!) but message me, or a member of your MobiTog Staff directly, thank you.


Rog... :rog:
 

Jasongag

MobiLurver
Real Name
Jason
Device
iPhone 6s
Like JillyG said elsewhere, its always interesting to see what others can make of from something you have posted.
I'm flattered BoBo that you would do this :)
I do like the square crop and the more rectangular one. I left the contrail in on the original as I felt it added something.
But back to the people issue, I do like the focus on the group of people looking over the wall.
I did consider cropping but left it as it was and for me I think that made a more interesting, rather than 'perfect' shot.
I liked the square one too
 

Ryn S

MobiLurver
MobiSupporter
Real Name
Ryn S
Device
iPhone 7 Plus
My 365
My MobiTog 365
Oh crap! I took someone's photo and cropped it to show the, quickly what I was talking about.... I think maybe that was not ok? I deleted the pics right afterward. But I didn't get permission and it wasn't the right thread. I'll go try to find that thread and remove those images. Please don't kick me out.
 

JillyG

MobiLifer
Mobi Veteran
Real Name
Jilly
Device
iPhone 11 Pro Max
My 365
My MobiTog 365
Oh crap! I took someone's photo and cropped it to show the, quickly what I was talking about.... I think maybe that was not ok? I deleted the pics right afterward. But I didn't get permission and it wasn't the right thread. I'll go try to find that thread and remove those images. Please don't kick me out.
:lol:
 

Glasshousebc

MobiStar
Real Name
Steve
Device
iPhone 11
Amazing what can be done with some further editing... the 6th and 7th photos were fantastic.

I’m tempted to look back At some shots taken over the years and playing with them.

Thank you.

Steve.
 

JillyG

MobiLifer
Mobi Veteran
Real Name
Jilly
Device
iPhone 11 Pro Max
My 365
My MobiTog 365
Amazing what can be done with some further editing... the 6th and 7th photos were fantastic.

I’m tempted to look back At some shots taken over the years and playing with them.

Thank you.

Steve.
Hey Steve, I see you’re new. We’d love to give you a super Mobitog Welcome, so if you’d like to introduce yourself here: https://mobitog.com/forums/welcome.2/create-thread
we can all say “hello” properly.:lol: And don’t keep your photos to yourself.:D

Edit: Steve’s already done it.:thumbs:
 
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