Mobile Photography in 2021

[rizole]

I'll run this till 1st Nov, seven entries so far

I thought of doing a rolling stone type cover for the album cover thread in the same vein of previous rolling stone covers I've done. I didn't do it in the end as I took the rolling stones magazine title from an actual rolling stones cover I got off the internet and wasn't sure that would be covered by "Mobile only" rules. Stopped me submitting. Stopped me wanting to participate to be honest..
Previous submissions I made to the album cover thread that included stock were deleted without notice or consultation. I didn't even have the notice to retract them myself.

Intrigued by the nomination of this one juryjone gives credit for the image to someone else. Presumably he added the cat and edited it a little.
Is the nomination for the editing? Are we 100% sure it was a mobile image to start with?

I think the mobile only rule is unhelpful in it's narrow definition and needs more thought.
Tech, phones, platforms and apps have moved on since mobitog first started and there's a substantial proportion of pics posted here that don't have pixels in them that were not on the original pic or came from some other app or library.
Personally I'd like some clarity on rules about sources. I think the current rules don't address the current decade's technological whatsits.
I should probably raise this in a different thread but here we are.

 

[rizole]

Come on @mobotog. Keep up.

 

[sinnerjohn]

I thought of doing a rolling stone type cover for the album cover thread in the same vein of previous rolling stone covers I've done. I didn't do it in the end as I took the rolling stones magazine title from an actual rolling stones cover I got off the internet and wasn't sure that would be covered by "Mobile only" rules. Stopped me submitting. Stopped me wanting to participate to be honest..
Previous submissions I made to the album cover thread that included stock were deleted without notice or consultation. I didn't even have the notice to retract them myself.

I think the mobile only rule is unhelpful in it's narrow definition and needs more thought.
Tech, phones, platforms and apps have moved on since mobitog first started and there's a substantial proportion of pics posted here that don't have pixels in them that were not on the original pic or came from some other app or library.
Personally I'd like some clarity on rules about sources. I think the current rules don't address the current decade's technological whatsits.
I should probably raise this in a different thread but here we are.

You've started a discussion in the one place I always hope to keep discussion free, let the images do the talking and all that!

But, you raise some points. Surely there are less than a handful of people that can remove your images 'without notice or consultation'? If it had been me I'd have had a witch hut to find out who and why.

I think the mobile only rule is what separates Mobitog from other online photographic forums, without that rule it may as well be Instagram, Flickr or god forbid Face ache.
But I also think their are two main factions on Mobitog. The members that are interested in Photography, trying to get the best images out of their cameras and the lets say, Creatives who like to layer and weave more artful images. Both can co-exist on Mobitog and are both valuable members of the community.
However I think the Creatives are most likely to bend the mobile only rule a little more, your Rolling Stones covers a good example.

I do think we need to agree about what is and what is not acceptable. Do you think a DSLR image that has been imported into Snapseed and has maybe had some adjustments done to it should be allowed? I know I'd be against that (but I'm not the law )

I understand your frustration rizole and maybe in hindsight I shouldn't have started up the Album cover challenge again, as this always seems to be the catalyst to these sorts of discussions. But I do think the 'rules' maybe need at least re-visiting so that the core of the Mobitog membership are all on the same page.

Can I ask Starzee if rizole doesn't object that you lift Rizole's and my comments out of the IOTM thread and place them in a new discussion thread pretty please

I'd like to know what others think, particularly the sleeping members.

 

[Starzee]

This thread is open by request. Mobitog rules and guidelines can be accessed by clicking on the “help” in the bottom right corner.

 

[juryjone]

Since I have the other image that sparked this conversation, let me state that I am unsure of the source of the original photo. The photographer does not list his camera on his photos. For that reason, I would not object to my image getting pulled from the IOTM competition.

I’m definitely in the “Creatves” camp. My interest in my sources is giving proper attribution, not in the gear they used. So I have many images that I post in FB and IG that I do not post here, giving the Unsplash or Sktchy user’s name. The rules here at Mobitog are what they are. They are restrictive to me, but certainly not so much that I would want to leave or even just lurk, never posting my images.

This particular image was modified so heavily that the originator would probably not recognize it as his. For that reason, I thought I could slide it into my Catch-all thread. Which leads to the question: am I allowed occasional questionably-sourced images in my own backwater of Mobitog, or was it the nomination in IOTM that is the problem?

 

[terse]

Argh.

When a similar issue came up regarding the B/W challenge and tinted images, the result was a rule that images had to be B/W only, no tints allowed. I'm not thrilled by that rule because I like tinted monochrome images and because now poor Jilly has to have a color picker at hand to check suspect images. But it seems like the only reasonable and enforceable rule possible; anything else would require endless decisions about how far is too far, and Jilly would go batty(er).

A corresponding rule in this case would be no use of art elements not authenticated as mobile. That would eliminate pretty much all stock images and elements (since they rarely if ever have info on how they were created) and also anything from genuine mobile apps such as Humans, Poser, Alien Sky, maybe even DistressedFX, and so on, because it's most likely that their elements were created on desktop machines. It also suggests that when I borrow something from another MobiTogger (with permission!), as I've done with zenjenny's moons in the past, I'd need to verify that the moons weren't tainted by any non-mobile capture or processing.

That (real or imagined) rule seems way too restrictive to me. So I'm going to argue that if I collage together various elements on my iPad to make an image, that image was created on the iPad even if one or more of the elements in it came from sources either unidentified or non-mobile. Unfortunately, my definition doesn't make for a simple rule like the B/W rule, and I'm sure we can all turn up enough edge cases to drive the entire forum crazy, but I'll stick with it until someone comes up with something better.

 

[sinnerjohn]

Since I have the other image that sparked this conversation, let me state that I am unsure of the source of the original photo. The photographer does not list his camera on his photos. For that reason, I would not object to my image getting pulled from the IOTM competition.

I’m definitely in the “Creatves” camp. My interest in my sources is giving proper attribution, not in the gear they used. So I have many images that I post in FB and IG that I do not post here, giving the Unsplash or Sktchy user’s name. The rules here at Mobitog are what they are. They are restrictive to me, but certainly not so much that I would want to leave or even just lurk, never posting my images.

This particular image was modified so heavily that the originator would probably not recognize it as his. For that reason, I thought I could slide it into my Catch-all thread. Which leads to the question: am I allowed occasional questionably-sourced images in my own backwater of Mobitog, or was it the nomination in IOTM that is the problem?

When i started the IOTM thread the idea was that members could pick the best images in their opinion that were posted in a particular month.
That was the only real rule, they had to be posted in the month. So I personally have no objection in your image being there at all.
What I was trying to do, was underline the fact that the base image was not actually yours, does this matter? I don't know. I was trying to open up some dialogue I guess.

 

[sinnerjohn]

When a similar issue came up regarding the B/W challenge and tinted images, the result was a rule that images had to be B/W only, no tints allowed. I'm not thrilled by that rule because I like tinted monochrome images

I've fallen foul of this rule a few times. I usually stomp about in a huff and delete the offending image

 

[Starzee]

Since I have the other image that sparked this conversation, let me state that I am unsure of the source of the original photo. The photographer does not list his camera on his photos. For that reason, I would not object to my image getting pulled from the IOTM competition.

I’m definitely in the “Creatves” camp. My interest in my sources is giving proper attribution, not in the gear they used. So I have many images that I post in FB and IG that I do not post here, giving the Unsplash or Sktchy user’s name. The rules here at Mobitog are what they are. They are restrictive to me, but certainly not so much that I would want to leave or even just lurk, never posting my images.

This particular image was modified so heavily that the originator would probably not recognize it as his. For that reason, I thought I could slide it into my Catch-all thread. Which leads to the question: am I allowed occasional questionably-sourced images in my own backwater of Mobitog, or was it the nomination in IOTM that is the problem?

This thread was opened for discussion only, no judgement. Your most excellent images remains in the running for IOTM.

 

[rizole]

I like how disapproving my latest avatar is of everything.
It's not helpful to the discussion. It's not meant to be

 

[WOTANICUS]

I am a creative first and a photographer second and a Mobile photographer third. My normal workflow prior to joining Mobitog would be to shoot with a digital camera first, then import to either my pad or my phone to process in Snapseed, before handing off to another app, such as hipstamatic for a bit of post. lately, i am using just my mobile more, A) because I want to explore the possibilities and B) because it is now technically superior to my aging camera. So i will often find myself wanting to post something in a challenge, which originated on a camera, but has been processed on my phone. My general understanding is that Mobitog submissions must 'originate' on the phone, i.e be shot with a mobile.

However, if you look at Hipstamatic, or Mextures or a number of similar apps, the heavily processed results from these apps must be the result of resources which were created originally on PCS. take the paks in Hipstamatic which add artificial 'torn edges' or light leaks or ridiculous artifacts like those red dots in the last release - surely these are non photographic elements, which can be added on to an existing image.

As Riz rightly states, the nature of mobitography has changed radically in recent years and I feel it has become an artform in itself. Surely it must be possible to support both straightforward photographs and creations on the forum, provided that they are created on a mobile device ?

Almost all of my submissions will involve a fair bit of post processing, from a Snapseed tweak to adjust contrast or tonality or a journey through Hipstamatic, LRM, Mextures and other apps before being freed onto the forum.

The album cover challenges are difficult to achieve without using external elements and almost all of them will use type - which in itself is a non-photographic element.

There is surely room for 'pure' photographic challenges and 'creative' ones too, which would satisfy all enthusiasts. There are a lot of challenges which I feel I can't take part in, but I don't feel left out, as there are invariably others i can join in, or just put my work on my own 'fun' 360 thread.

Why not have one or two challenges for traditional pure work in b/w and colour and other more creative slots alongside, with less stringent criteria ?

 

[Starzee]

I don’t believe this whole conversation is necessary, but it was requested. We don’t need Mobicops. All sorts of mobile artists are welcome and should be encouraged. I’ve brought up a few times that the site outline is available by pressing help at the bottom of the page. It IS a very tiny help and I needed help finding it, but it is there.

Among the admin babble:

Terms and rules, found here:
https://mobitog.com/help/terms/

• MobiTog provides the leading, web based, community dedicated entirely to Mobile Photography taken with and processed on the iPhone and other similar Mobile Device types and platforms.

How to use Mobitog
https://mobitog.com/help/how_to/https://mobitog.com/help/how_to/

• Be courteous in your comments and critiques.
• All images must be created and edited entirely on mobile devices.
• You must have the right to post any image you upload, either because it is yours, because you have permission from the rights holder, or because it is in the public domain.

There it is. There are tons of sites with public domain images. One of my favorites it the Smithsonian. I don’t use the images much, but I have several (hundred).

How you use the images is a matter of philosophy. You may debate your philosophy all you want and I assure you someone, somewhere will disagree.

The way I see it if you are mangling an image you got from Pixabay or some such, say so and move on. Just please, have fun with your photography and creating. And be respectful of others photography and creating.

 

[Starzee]

I like how disapproving my latest avatar is of everything.
It's not helpful to the discussion. It's not meant to be

I’m going spend part of the weekend finding an avatar as grumpy as yours!

 

[sinnerjohn]

Why not have one or two challenges for traditional pure work in b/w and colour and other more creative slots alongside, with less stringent criteria ?

I think we already do have that. The B/W and Colour challenges and then the more creative areas like Album Cover and Appstract.

 

[sinnerjohn]

I don’t believe this whole conversation is necessary, but it was requested. We don’t need Mobicops. All sorts of mobile artists are welcome and should be encouraged. I’ve brought up a few times that the site outline is available by pressing help at the bottom of the page. It IS a very tiny help and I needed help finding it, but it is there.

Among the admin babble:

Terms and rules, found here:
https://mobitog.com/help/terms/

• MobiTog provides the leading, web based, community dedicated entirely to Mobile Photography taken with and processed on the iPhone and other similar Mobile Device types and platforms.

How to use Mobitog
https://mobitog.com/help/how_to/https://mobitog.com/help/how_to/

• Be courteous in your comments and critiques.
• All images must be created and edited entirely on mobile devices.
• You must have the right to post any image you upload, either because it is yours, because you have permission from the rights holder, or because it is in the public domain.

There it is. There are tons of sites with public domain images. One of my favorites it the Smithsonian. I don’t use the images much, but I have several (hundred).

How you use the images is a matter of philosophy. You may debate your philosophy all you want and I assure you someone, somewhere will disagree.

The way I see it if you are mangling an image you got from Pixabay or some such, say so and move on. Just please, have fun with your photography and creating. And be respectful of others photography and creating.

So if I use an image taken on a DSLR and then edit it on my mobile I can post on MobiTog?

As a Mobi staffer you are kind of implying we could take an image from anywhere are use it, regardless of -

• All images must be created and edited entirely on mobile devices.

 

[rizole]

I'd like to know what others think, particularly the sleeping members

I think this is a largely redundant coversation unless the sleeping members take part. If lines aren't drawn and descisions not taken then its all for nothing.

 

[Geek1956]

So if I use an image taken on a DSLR and then edit it on my mobile I can post on MobiTog?

As a Mobi staffer you are kind of implying we could take an image from anywhere are use it, regardless of -

• All images must be created and edited entirely on mobile devices.

I must be missing the point here John, from the rules that Starzee has posted I read “…photos taken with and processed on the iPhone” and “ ….created and edited entirely on mobile devices”. Seems like a done deal.

 

[ImageArt]

I’m pretty strict about what I post here even with images that I create. I find objects from my own phone stash and that’s the challenge for me. So I like the rules as they are.

Some Mobitogers bend the rules a little but it does tend to be in certain threads and I’m okay with that. The occasional camera photo which is included to demonstrate a point and is declared tends to get ignored and should be and the ones which are clearly crossing the line get removed so I think we are good here.

 

[sinnerjohn]

I think this is a largely redundant conversation.

Agreed, I'd say just post whatever you want and be done with it.

Seems like a done deal.

On the face of it yes.

 

[rizole]

Agreed, I'd say just post whatever you want and be done with it.


On the face of it yes.

*sigh*

 

[sinnerjohn]

*sigh*

What do you want from this discussion rizole ?

 

[rizole]

Surely there are less than a handful of people that can remove your images 'without notice or consultation'? If it had been me I'd have had a witch hut to find out who and why.

What do you want from this discussion @rizole ?

You know what, on refection my complaint isn't about the rules but how they have been applied. Well spotted John. And well handled too. Sorry to raise this on your shift.
I will pursue my complaint on the album thread.

 

[RoseCat]

We don’t need Mobicops.

Agreed!

 

[RoseCat]

So if I use an image taken on a DSLR and then edit it on my mobile I can post on MobiTog?

No, you cannot. And I believe you are well aware of this as a long-time MobiMember so not sure why the question.

As a Mobi staffer you are kind of implying we could take an image from anywhere are use it, regardless of -

I don’t think Star is implying that at all.

 

[sinnerjohn]

No, you cannot. And I believe you are well aware of this as a long-time MobiMember so not sure why the question.

Ha ha of course I'm well aware of it, but sometimes it needs to be clarified. I think in general 'most' posters on MobiTog abide by the -

• All images must be created and edited entirely on mobile devices.

But as Jerry is asking the question here on this very thread - 'am I allowed occasional questionably-sourced images in my own backwater of Mobitog' I think its a question that needs a definitive answer. Can we post borrowed images that may or may not be mobile images?

I don’t think Star is implying that at all.

Hmmm I disagree, why mention 'There are tons of sites with public domain images. One of my favourites it the Smithsonian.'

The problem is the ambiguous rule

• You must have the right to post any image you upload, either because it is yours, because you have permission from the rights holder, or because it is in the public domain.

So if a friend gave me an image to play with that I had no idea was mobile or not, would it be ok to post it as I have permission from the rights holder? Same question about an image from The Smithsonian, its public domain so I can post it?

This whole topic came about as rizole mentioned that the Unsplash images he used as part of a challenge were deleted. Now I'm not saying I agree with using Unsplash images, in fact I would campaign for them not to be used, but I'm not sure why Mobi Admin are selective about what they choose to delete?

By the way I'm not talking about filters or bits of image borrowed for a collage, I'm talking about whole images lifted and edited.

Does this all matter? I'm not sure really, I think the general consensus is keep quiet say nothing and everyone will be happy. Not sure it always works like that though.