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RESULT MobiZero Challenge

RoseCat

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Cropping removes part of the information of the original image thereby changing the image from the way it was originally shot, so it really is editing the image.
Since I mostly use RAW image format and RAW images require developing before they can be used, or even viewed at full resolution, it might be worth discussing what constitutes editing wrt. RAW images.
With a jpeg image the operating system applies some standard algorithms to enhance the appearance of jpeg images. Sharpening, noise reduction, white balance correction, contrast and saturation adjustments are all part of the standard algorithms.
Since a RAW image doesn’t have any adjustments made to it things like sharpening, noise reduction, etc are part of normal image development. Where is the line that divides regular development from editing?
I see this challenge as pretty plain and simple: no editing of images (but you can crop). All of our other challenges utilize editing (sometimes extreme editing) so John is offering us a fresh alternative. I don't believe we need to overthink the process, just have fun and enjoy the freedom of no edits.
 

jsi

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John
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iPhone 6s

jsi

MobiStar
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John
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iPhone 6s
Since I mostly use RAW image format and RAW images require developing before they can be used, or even viewed at full resolution, it might be worth discussing what constitutes editing wrt. RAW images.
With a jpeg image the operating system applies some standard algorithms to enhance the appearance of jpeg images. Sharpening, noise reduction, white balance correction, contrast and saturation adjustments are all part of the standard algorithms.
Since a RAW image doesn’t have any adjustments made to it things like sharpening, noise reduction, etc are part of normal image development. Where is the line that divides regular development from editing?

Dear Brian -

The am aware of the many electronic pitfall of the mobile camera : “how many angels fit on the head of a pixel ?”

For purposes of MobiZero challenge I choose to use the K.I.S.S algorithms . . .

regards,

jsi
 

JillyG

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I see this challenge as pretty plain and simple: no editing of images (but you can crop). All of our other challenges utilize editing (sometimes extreme editing) so John is offering us a fresh alternative. I don't believe we need to overthink the process, just have fun and enjoy the freedom of no edits.
Here here ( or is it hear, hear - let’s have a debate about it!).
 

JillyG

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Jilly
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Since I mostly use RAW image format and RAW images require developing before they can be used, or even viewed at full resolution, it might be worth discussing what constitutes editing wrt. RAW images.
With a jpeg image the operating system applies some standard algorithms to enhance the appearance of jpeg images. Sharpening, noise reduction, white balance correction, contrast and saturation adjustments are all part of the standard algorithms.
Since a RAW image doesn’t have any adjustments made to it things like sharpening, noise reduction, etc are part of normal image development. Where is the line that divides regular development from editing?
Brian, if you want to discuss “what constitutes editing wrt. RAW images” might I suggest you open a thread and do just that. But I don’t think here, in John’s new challenge, is the place to “discuss” it, do you?
 

terse

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68FCF87D-0B43-4321-9D31-2E46EFF51616.jpeg


Gravestone in Evergreen Cemetery, Santa Cruz. This old (for California) cemetery is on a steep hillside and covered with tall redwoods and pines, so the damage may have been caused by falling trees and branches, not necessarily vandalism. The cemetery has been undergoing renovation for several years now, under the direction of the local Museum of Art & History (MAH). For those of you who (like me) feel compelled to read all the words in a photo, that word at the bottom is Canandaigua, a lake and city in New York state.
 

JillyG

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View attachment 148106

Gravestone in Evergreen Cemetery, Santa Cruz. This old (for California) cemetery is on a steep hillside and covered with tall redwoods and pines, so the damage may have been caused by falling trees and branches, not necessarily vandalism. The cemetery has been undergoing renovation for several years now, under the direction of the local Museum of Art & History (MAH). For those of you who (like me) feel compelled to read all the words in a photo, that word at the bottom is Canandaigua, a lake and city in New York state.
“Ichapin Willson”. Have I read that correctly? That’s an unusual first name. I love the sound of that cemetery.
 

FundyBrian

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Well, I shoot almost entirely handheld, only rarely on a tripod. When I frame a photo on my iPhone screen, I intentionally leave space around the image I want to capture because

* That avoids possibly cutting off something important due to any last second twitch, bobble, gust of wind, motion of the subject, or whatever.

* It also allows me to rethink the composition when I'm reviewing the shot. Frequently, I find a better image within the image I originally captured.

Cropping is easy and quite precise. For me, framing handheld on an iPhone screen is not, so why push it? The goal is a good image, not the route I take to get there.
It’s always interesting to me to get insight into other people’s ways of working. I can understand your methodology and rationale.
I think to a large degree I still think like I’m using film. Get the picture right at the time of exposure and what you get is what you get. I will make a number of different minor changes in composition and framing at the time of exposing and choose my favourite later. I commit to the final image at the time of exposing and hardly ever change the framing/cropping in post. I don’t want to waste a single pixel. I really dislike having to straighten an image during editing since resampling is the best way to reduce image quality.

I will agree that in bright light the mobile screen is hard to see and I use a tripod very often when I’m out photographing. I sometimes use some means to make the screen easier to see to help me compose the way I want. In lower light the mobile screen affords a better view than you can get with a camera viewfinder so the advantage tips to the mobile screen in that case.

Referring to a previous mention in the thread to typical camera viewfinders being more precise I would like to add that until SLRs came along the typical camera viewfinder was terrible and did not give a very precise, or even centred view, of what the film would actually record. Typically you could expect to get about 20% more on the film than what you would see in the viewfinder. Mobile screens on the other hand give an exact full frame 100% representation of what will be in the final photo. Most DSLRs give about a 95 to 97% accurate view.
 

JillyG

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Thinking about how RAW images compare to jpeg images led me on an experiment to try to replicate as closely as possible what you see in the low resolution jpeg thumbnail that is attached to RAW images. The operating system cannot directly display RAW images in the camera roll so RAW images must have a low resolution thumbnail image attached to them so the operating system can display something other than a blank grey box for you RAW images.

For my example I chose a hand held photo I made recently. I was using my tripod and switching between my iPhone and another camera, but the tripod had the other camera on it at the moment and the legs were fully extended and when I came to this situation the sun had already risen above the hills so the only way I could exclude the sun was to crouch down low and since I knew it was going to take too long to rearrange my tripod for this low level viewpoint I made hand held pictures instead. If I was to stand up from my kneeling position the sun would pop out from behind the land to the right of the lighthouse and ruin the picture. I’m using just the middle exposure from a 3-shot HDR RAW image set made using PureShot.

Here’s the problem: when you select a RAW image to view in the camera roll what you see is just the low resolution jpeg preview, not the full size RAW image, because the operating system cannot directly display RAW images. So what you see is completely different from what the RAW image actually looks like. The jpeg preview receives all the usual heavy handed processing jpeg images always get in the attempt to give you the best image possible on your screen, at least they way they think it should look. That includes a fair bit sharpening and noise reduction as well as brightness, saturation and contrast adjustments. So the challenge is to figure out how to make the RAW image look as close as possible to the jpeg preview image.

View attachment 148126
This first image is the jpeg preview image. And of course both images were resized to the standard MobiTog image upload size. I’m assuming for the sake of this test that if I had made jpeg photos this is what they would have looked like.

If you try to edit a RAW image in the Photos app as soon as you tap “edit” the image changes drastically from the jpeg view to the operating system’s edit of the RAW file. To save a version of the jpeg preview you have to open the picture in an app that does not edit RAW files and switches to editing the preview image instead. I this case I opened the image in Instaflash Pro and made no adjustments at all and just saved the jpeg preview image as a separate jpeg image.

View attachment 148125
This is my developed RAW image trying to replicate what I could see in the jpeg preview image. The most obvious difference is that the preview image is lower resolution so the bars around the top of the lighthouse are less clear. I was developing the RAW image on my iPad while looking at the reference jpeg preview image on my iPhone so I could see both at once. I think I came pretty close to matching the jpeg image with the RAW.

This is what I had to do to make the RAW image look like the jpeg preview image:
Exposure, 0 adjustment
Black Point, -3, in other words I reduced the depth of the blacks a bit
Brightness, +20%
Contrast +6% , increase in contrast
Clarity 0, no change
Saturation +42%, a substantial saturation boost was required to match the jpeg image
Vibrance +23%
White balance, no change
Tint, no change
Shadows -7%, darkened the shadow areas a bit
Highlights -90%, reduced the brightness in the highlight areas a lot
Sharpening: Radius 21%, Amount 34%
Noise Reduction, Luminance, 31%, I wouldn’t normally use noise reduction at all since my ISO is usually 20.

I confess surprise at how much fiddling it took to try to match the jpeg image. I don’t normally ever refer to the jpeg preview images when editing RAW images and they just go where they go to satisfy my feel for the image.

So I hope you found this comparison interesting and/or instructive. I think it means that in terms of “no edits” some discussion would be worthwhile about RAW images.

A secondary point I would like to make is that the so-called unedited jpeg image has, in fact, received a heavy dose of edits without your input, before you even get a look at it. So the term “no-edits” takes on a different meaning since there is nothing you can do on a mobile phone to avoid the set of edits performed on your behalf, like it or not, that the operating system does to your images. If you want a truly unedited image the only way to get it is to use RAW image format.

Just for reference, this is what the undeveloped RAW image first looks like when opened in the RAW develop module of Affinity Photo - rather dull.
View attachment 148127
The RAW image starts out looking pretty dull until it is developed. Yes, this is the same middle exposure from my HDR set but rest assured, all the image data is in there ready to be worked with.
Not the right place for this discussion Brian. This is a challenge, not a discussion thread.
 

FundyBrian

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Brian, if you want to discuss “what constitutes editing wrt. RAW images” might I suggest you open a thread and do just that. But I don’t think here, in John’s new challenge, is the place to “discuss” it, do you?
Point taken. I love getting into the details. Unfortunately I already posted an entry into the unedited thread before I saw your message, and it includes some info about what I had to do to make a RAW image look like an unedited jpeg image. I thought it was an interesting experiment worth sharing.
 

JillyG

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Point taken. I love getting into the details. Unfortunately I already posted an entry into the unedited thread before I saw your message, and it includes some info about what I had to do to make a RAW image look like an unedited jpeg image. I thought it was an interesting experiment worth sharing.
It is. But just not here. :thumbs:
 

RoseCat

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Catherine
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Point taken. I love getting into the details. Unfortunately I already posted an entry into the unedited thread before I saw your message, and it includes some info about what I had to do to make a RAW image look like an unedited jpeg image. I thought it was an interesting experiment worth sharing.
I’ve moved it to its own thread in Tech Talk. :thumbs:
 

terse

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“Ichapin Willson”. Have I read that correctly? That’s an unusual first name. I love the sound of that cemetery.
Peering hard at the photo, I think there's a period after the first I, so maybe I. Chapin Willson? (Isaac, Ilene, Ichabod?)
 
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