Problem with streaked vertical lines

Sacha,

I am guessing that this was originally under-exposed and that you brought up the levels during your edit?

What I am seeing here could be vertical-banding which is fairly commonly seen in under-exposed digital captures that have had their levels raised in editing. An iPhone's sensor does not have a tremendous amount of dynamic range.

Could you post the original capture as a comparison?
 
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Hi Venomator & Kevin,
the picture above is mine, Sacha was so kind and started this thread for me.
I am having this problem with the vertical lines since I got my iPhone 5S. The original photos are clear but after processing the image with some other Apps (PhotoToaster etc. see above) the lines appear. I know JPG is not a lossless format but I did not have this issue on my iPhone4 with iOS6. I tested an iPhone4S with iOS7 and the same issue occurs.

Foto 16.12.13 16 00 51 (1).jpg
 
M a r i k o said:
Hi Venomator & Kevin,
the picture above is mine, Sacha was so kind and started this thread for me.
I am having this problem with the vertical lines since I got my iPhone 5S. The original photos are clear but after processing the image with some other Apps (PhotoToaster etc. see above) the lines appear. I know JPG is not a lossless format but I did not have this issue on my iPhone4 with iOS6. I tested an iPhone4S with iOS7 and the same issue occurs.
Click to expand...
Hey Mariko, welcome to MobiTog... :thumbs:

Would you be able to post the original un-edited iMage for comparison, as Kevin suggested?

Thanks... :rog:
 
Ok, to me it looks like it's horizontal ( not vertical ) lines.

It seems that the filter you have added is compensating for highlights from the sun and the power/telephone lines in the photo therfore instead of normal radiated flare lines the app's filter has decided to make them a line rather than radial highlights seeing as it looks like there are 2 light sources either side of the horse rider, one being the sun and the other a reflection from another source.

Thats my two penny's worth as seeing as I can't see any vertical line in either photo, but then I am blind as bat according to my wife. Lol
 
Kev_G said:
Ok, to me it looks like it's horizontal ( not vertical ) lines.

It seems that the filter you have added is compensating for highlights from the sun and the power/telephone lines in the photo therfore instead of normal radiated flare lines the app's filter has decided to make them a line rather than radial highlights seeing as it looks like there are 2 light sources either side of the horse rider, one being the sun and the other a reflection from another source.

Thats my two penny's worth as seeing as I can't see any vertical line in either photo, but then I am blind as bat according to my wife. Lol
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@Kev_G - I was looking at the Flickr post on my iPad and could not see any vertical lines either Kev... :rog:

But, when I switched to my MBP and looked closely at the largest iMage on Flickr the vertical lines are quite clearly visible and uniform across the entire iMage... ;)

I suspect @Kevin Barrett was along the right lines that this has occurred when processing the original Hipstamatic iMage... :thumbs:

Although it is not so evident on smaller sized iMages, it is not something I have come across before though... :D
 
Venom, have just checked both images on ipad first and the one on flicker doesn't show the 2nd light source like the one posted here, therefore it maybe a editing problem. Will have a better look tomorrow both on pc and mac to try and compare them.
 
M a r i k o said:
Hi Venomator & Kevin,
the picture above is mine, Sacha was so kind and started this thread for me.
I am having this problem with the vertical lines since I got my iPhone 5S. The original photos are clear but after processing the image with some other Apps (PhotoToaster etc. see above) the lines appear. I know JPG is not a lossless format but I did not have this issue on my iPhone4 with iOS6. I tested an iPhone4S with iOS7 and the same issue occurs.

View attachment 47301
Click to expand...
I don't see the banding that shows on Flikr
That one almost looks like a textures, pretty even.
On this one it looks like it is just starting in top left and right (moreso on the right) in the vignetting or greenish tinged area.
The little light to the right of the sun is nothing more than lens flare. and should not influence much outside of what shows.
 
I don't think of a hardware problem, since the original photos are with no issues. For me, it looks like a heavy over processed image. Maybe some apps won't work at it's best with the higher resolution images of the 5S?
When I hand over the Hipsta image to Lightroom on my PC and turn sharpening as unrealistically high as possible, I get this (100% crop of top left corner) out of the Hipsta image posted here:

Unbenannt.png


Again, I oversharpend here to it's limits using Lightroom. These little squares all over the image may come from underlying textures out of Hipstamatic? Or JPG artifacts. Or is it the forum software compressing JPG's again during upload? :sneaky: Normally you can't see these squares. As sharpening goes, for me PhotoToaster seems not the best choice of a tool for that. This is my own experience with this tool, may be I just used it the wrong way.
 
Hi,
thanks for all your replies! I'm a little bit stressed out at the moment because of New Year's Eve preparations so I'll be back tomorrow.
I wish you all a Happy New Year!
 
Mik is right.

I don't think you have a hardware issue here. In my opinion, it is more of a function of taking a .jpg file too far in editing with certain apps. I experimented a bit with my 4s last night with an under-exposed image in PhotoToaster. Though it didn't produce the banding we see here, it did produce (reveal) some very undesirable artifacting. I am curious to know if you are seeing this on a regular basis with PhotoToaster and if you've seen it with other apps as well? Your 'original' Hipstamatic shot is very nice indeed. Actually, far superior to the second edit in PhotoToaster. I should note that .jpg files are limited in what you can do with them. You can break them with any app. I typically will adjust an image to the point of destruction and then throttle back until the results look acceptable to me.

You've pushed the levels quite a bit in your second edit. I am not surprised that some banding was revealed as a result. I took the same file and pushed the shadow detail as far as Camera+ will allow and I also tweaked the highlights as well. The Camera+ edit doesn't seem to exhibit the banding with this extreme push, but the shadows are expectantly horrific. This is not to elevate one app over another, but to illustrate the point that different apps will handle files differently and that ALL .jpegs have a breaking point.

I still haven't 100% figured-out when to stop editing. That is topic for another discussion at another time. I am curious to know why you didn't stop with the original Hipstamatic shot, and what were you trying to achieve with the second edit in PhotoToaster?

Regardless, my best advice is to experiment with various apps (and settings) under different scenarios. Find which combinations work best for you and stick with them for awhile. We all love our apps, but it truly is best to be a master of a few at first before venturing off to others too quickly.

BTW - I do utilize PhotoToaster myself. I think it is well suited for achieving certain effects and it stays on my phone.

image.jpeg
 
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I don't understand why the experts stick with jpeg when we can use tiff files. We have camera and editing apps that save as tiff. These files are lossless. Also, it's so easy to edit that I know I am guilty of over editing.
 
Hi there!

I made several tests and am convinced now that this is not a hardware problem nor is it a certain app or overediting that is causing the issue.

I tested the following using a picture taken with ProCamera on iPhone4 (iOS6):

1. I used the app Camera+ on iPhone 5S (iOS7) and saved the image (without editing) 4 times.
I did the same with PhotoToaster and Mextures. On all three images the lines appeared.
2. I did the same with my old iPhone 4 (iOS6). NO LINES!

Obviously it doesn't matter if the photo was taken with iPhone 4 or 5S or which app you use.
The more times you save your image the more the lines appear.
I am almost certain that iOS7 is causing it.

Meanwhile I've found some other iPhone photographers with the same issue.

1. original/pure
Foto 21.12.13 08 59 39 (3).jpg


2. iOS6
Foto 21.12.13 08 59 39 (4).jpg


3. iOS7
Foto 21.12.13 08 59 39 (6).jpg



Your thoughts?
 
M a r i k o said:
Obviously it doesn't matter if the photo was taken with iPhone 4 or 5S or which app you use.
The more times you save your image the more the lines appear.
Click to expand...

This is should be normal behaviour with JPG files. When you save a JPG, it's data gets lossy compressed. Open it and save it again, it gets again lossy compressed. The more you reopen and save, the more it gets worse.
 
Why isn't vertical banding which is inherent in the iphone.AvgCamPro removes it from photos before you send them to editor? App creates fingerprint of your camera and then applies it to photo. I am not an expert, just asking a question.
 
Mik said:
This is should be normal behaviour with JPG files. When you save a JPG, it's data gets lossy compressed. Open it and save it again, it gets again lossy compressed. The more you reopen and save, the more it gets worse.
Click to expand...
that and the image is better is why I use Tiff files
 
Well, great they fixed this and I hope they will fix the purple problem affecting lots of apps, and I'm not talking about the previous iPhone 5 flare purple problem.

In fact, if you look at the 3 pictures above, you'll notice the third has lots more purple and this is a bug we have discussed and where few devs are working on it now. I didn't upgrade yet to 7.0.5 but let's hope they'll fix that soon too, because lots of people have it without even realise it.
 
Sorry, but the problem with the vertical lines has NOT been fixed with the new iOS 7.0.5 update!

I noticed these two big problems with my iPhone5S (IOS 7.0.6) and my iPhone4S's wife (IOS 7.0.5):
1. VERTICAL LINES
My original shots are clear and sharp but after saving to the camera roll (simply "open and save without processing" an image with every apps, i.e. Snapseed, Filterstorm, Leonardo etc.) some lines appear and I notice a great degradation of image quality.
2. PHOTOS TURN PURPLE
Every time I save an image to the camera roll (again, simply "open and save" the image with every apps), it turns more and more "purple". Actually, it's impossible for me to get a PURE BW photo in my camera roll.
I made some tests with the iPhones of my friends (IOS 7) and the same issue occurs.

Below is an example. Because of this problem is more evident with BW photos, I use a shot taken with camera app simply converted in black and white. First image is a crop from the original BW shot, the second one is the same image opened and saved (without processing) with Snapseed about 10 times. Same problems occurs with every apps I tried (Filterstorm, Photofx, VSCO, Afterlight, TadaaSLR, Leonardo, PSexpress, Noir etc.).
Note: enlarging the image (i.e. with Filterstorm), the problem is visible after 2 or 3 times.

This is the original image:
foto 3.JPG


This is the "final" image (after about 10 times of "open and save" without processing):
foto 1 (3).JPG


Crop of the ear (original image):
foto 2.PNG


Crop of the ear (finale image):
foto 4 (1).PNG


Have you noticed these problems?
If not, please try to reproduce it (only IOS 7) simply opening and saving (without processing) a BW photo about 10/12 times and compares the result with the original one.

Greetings from Italy, my friends!
Mauro

PS. Sorry for my english, but my teacher died on 3rd days of school ;-)
 
@entusiasmo Hi Mauro, welcome to MobiTog, you might want to introduce yourself in the welcome area too.

I don't know about the vertical problem but for the purple one, yes, I'm unfortunately well aware about it and we are trying to discuss it all over around the web. For now, just some developer was able to fix the issue as Leonardo, for example. But it depends on what the developers use for converting the colours. It's not a dev problem though but a bug inside an Objective-C "method" that Apple should fix. But for now, no clues about it.
 
Mauro, I have experienced the same issues as you point out with iOS7, including with its latest update 7.0.6. I try to work with as many .tiff images as possible or as many apps as will allow. The only way I have been able to reduce the purple tint in a final black and white image is to set my saturation to 0. Desaturating the image completely, as long as I boost the contrast and white balance beforehand, will save it without the purple hue being as noticeable.
 
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