sinnerjohn
IOTM WInner - April 2022
It was a general comment aimed at maybe sparking a debate. I'll keep quiet.Thank you for the reminder. But it wasn’t necessary. I don’t have dementia yet!
Time to vote for April Image of the Month (IotM). All MobiTog members are eligible to vote. Voting ends May 7.
It was a general comment aimed at maybe sparking a debate. I'll keep quiet.Thank you for the reminder. But it wasn’t necessary. I don’t have dementia yet!
I've been trying to figure out where these AI works fit in my personal art universe. They make me think of magazine illustrations, for some reason (maybe the general glossiness and smoothness of them). And Jerry's latest combining two, for example, feels to me kind of like collages people make using magazine illos (though it doesn't look at all like those -- no torn edges, for one thing).I totally agree, Jerry and a few others are creating great work from AI programs. Lets not forget though that a server is creating these images albeit with text prompts.
I came across this guy who's creating portraits made with AI.I've been trying to figure out where these AI works fit in my personal art universe. They make me think of magazine illustrations, for some reason (maybe the general glossiness and smoothness of them). And Jerry's latest combining two, for example, feels to me kind of like collages people make using magazine illos (though it doesn't look at all like those -- no torn edges, for one thing).
It's a great shot.View attachment 187440
One of mine for the purpose of debate.
The debate being should we change the MobiTog rules to allow AI-generated art?for the purpose of debate.
I thought they were generated via certain apps, or on a browser which you could access/perform on a mobile device.Does AI art belong in MobiTog? To my eye, a strict interpretation of the rules would say no. It's not executed on mobile devices, so it doesn't fit.
Absolutely agree.But... I don't think mobile photography needs to be in circle-the-wagons mode in the 2020s. That skirmish is over -- we're photographers and artists producing photos and digital art, and we're doing it on mobiles. So we could set aside a forum for posting and discussing AI-generated art, if that's what people want to do.
You can access most AI programs via a phone browser but the heavy lifting is definitely done via a server. Obviously you could then adapt or embellish that image further like Jerry does with some of his. Making them tenuously 'mobile'.I thought they were generated via certain apps, or on a browser which you could access/perform on a mobile device.
Of which I had no real input to, but thanks!It's a great shot.
That’s what I’ve been using. And I’m not getting anything near as cool as juryjone Jerry or any of the other postings I’ve seen.I thought they were generated via certain apps, or on a browser which you could access/perform on a mobile device.
Also, agreeAbsolutely agree.
Me to my wife: "thanks for making lunch"Of which I had no real input to, but thanks!
You tell a good story . . .Me to my wife: "thanks for making lunch"
My wife: "someone else grew the potatoes, wheat, corn and raised the cow mainly using machines and mechanised processes.
Someone then harvested the plants and slaughtered the cow, again, with machines.
The food was transported in a machine to a place that machines further processed and packaged it, then someone put them in machines that moved them to a central location where I went, in a machine and bought it. I used a trolly and bags to carry the food and a regulated system of exchange to buy it. The exchange wss processed and recorded by a network connected system of accounts.
I then drove back on a road made mainly by the labour of machines in a car made mainly by the labour of machines and put your lunch in the microwave and turned a dial to heat it up. The microwave uses electricity I didn't generate myself.
I served your lunch on a plate I didn't make but you're welcome.
You do the washing up."
An abitary rule made 12 years ago in a different world with different technologic sophistication by people who are no longer here who, never the less changed those rules recently based on the fact the world moves on.who has the No.1 rule
Change the record John, we've heard this one before.kangaroo court,
Yeah, it's the drawing of lines (or not drawing) that's the thorny problem. Personally, I think there's still value to keeping an emphasis on mobile-only, if nothing else because it provides constraints (which I find to be a good thing, creatively) and because it gathers together like-equipped (and more likely to be like-minded) people who will have tips and tricks to share. But I think there's room to allow a forum slot for the occasional special case, which I think AI art qualifies as, although I'd prefer to keep such a slot separate from the standard MobiTog threads.It's an interesting area, I like Ted's circle the wagon comment. How dissimilar would it be for me to process an image via pc then upload it via mobile to Mobitog? Hence if it comes from a mobile it's a mobile image.
Bravo.Me to my wife: "thanks for making lunch"
My wife: "someone else grew the potatoes, wheat, corn and raised the cow mainly using machines and mechanised processes.
Someone then harvested the plants and slaughtered the cow, again, with machines.
The food was transported in a machine to a place that machines further processed and packaged it, then someone put them in machines that moved them to a central location where I went, in a machine and bought it. I used a trolly and bags to carry the food and a regulated system of exchange to buy it. The exchange wss processed and recorded by a network connected system of accounts.
I then drove back on a road made mainly by the labour of machines in a car made mainly by the labour of machines and put your lunch in the microwave and turned a dial to heat it up. The microwave uses electricity I didn't generate myself.
I served your lunch on a plate I didn't make but you're welcome.
You do the washing up."
An abitary rule made 12 years ago in a different world with different technologic sophistication by people who are no longer here who, never the less changed those rules recently based on the fact the world moves on.
Agree and Agree! Lest we become like our grandparents always looking back on how life “used to be” and not seeing what the world has become and embracing it. I would not want to open MobiTog up to “big camera” images, but offshoots like AI are interesting, fun and a cool creative outlet. Plus how boring is it to constantly regulate and reinforce rules and block new ways of being, rather than delight in a new art form and have the flexibility to adapt the rules.Yeah, it's the drawing of lines (or not drawing) that's the thorny problem. Personally, I think there's still value to keeping an emphasis on mobile-only, if nothing else because it provides constraints (which I find to be a good thing, creatively) and because it gathers together like-equipped (and more likely to be like-minded) people who will have tips and tricks to share. But I think there's room to allow a forum slot for the occasional special case, which I think AI art qualifies as, although I'd prefer to keep such a slot separate from the standard MobiTog threads.
“taken on a Sigma 35mm F1.4 ART DG HSM Lens for Canon DSLRs”
Yes, it's a bit like saying "Hey, Claude, those water lilies sure look nice. Why don't you paint a picture of those?" and then claiming the result as your own. "I created it using my Claude tool!"then present it and say, “look what I did!” Really, is that exactly the image you intended to get with that prompt?
I agree too. I actually toyed with the idea of setting up Stable Diffusion on my Mac Book Pro, which is mobile and, would squeak by the mobile rule. Sadly, I would have had to upgrade to Apple Silicon to do that.Since I am one of a couple people here who has embraced AI art (dscheff is another), you may be surprised that I agree with everything that is said here. Yes, the actual image is made on the server, not on the mobile device. So Mobitog rules could certainly be interpreted to “ban” those images (most likely, politely ask them to be removed, since we have a very agreeable community here). As terse said, we could also carve out a separate area. I’ve done that in large part by creating my own thread where I show my images, and keep everything out of photo challenge threads.
I also fully believe that, as of right now, AI art is very antiseptic and boring UNLESS it is not displayed as a finished project. If we use it, as Ted says, like we would use source images in a collage, then it can be a valuable tool. (Lest anyone call me a hypocrite, due to today’s image coming straight out of an AI, I don’t always consider images in my thread to be finished projects. Sometimes it’s just, “isn’t that cool!”)
I wrote an article on my blog in 2016, “Musings on Mobile Art”, that addresses questions that the art world at large had at the time about that day’s technology. We’ve all heard from big camera photographers that digital photography isn’t art. We’ve all heard from painters and sculptors that photography isn’t art. And so on and so on. My response is that art comes from intent. If I make changes to saturation, clarity, etc. of a photo, especially targeted changes to part of s photo, then these are artistic changes. It may not be good art, but the intent makes it an artistic endeavor.
And that’s where I run into issues with the “prompt crafters” of the AI art world. The ones who add all kinds of verbiage to their prompts (“cinematic lighting”, “ultra high detail”, “8k”, “photorealistic”, “taken on a Sigma 35mm F1.4 ART DG HSM Lens for Canon DSLRs”, for god’s sake) that make no consistent material difference, then present it and say, “look what I did!” Really, is that exactly the image you intended to get with that prompt? You wanted that mouse to have five whiskers on one side and two on the other, a closed nostril and a withered paw? And if it isn’t what you intended, why didn’t you do some editing to more fully capture your vision? Because that’s where the art enters in.
Yeesh, this is a big topic, and I could go on and on for days. And I haven’t even addressed @sinnerjohn’s questions about photorealistic portraits of people that don’t exist.
tl;dr: AI text-to-image is a tool. It’s certainly within your right to use or not use the tool. It’s certainly within Mobitog’s right to allow the tool’s use or not. And merely using the tool is not what I consider art.